What Is Legal Abuse? LEAF Experts Explain I Ep. 3

The legal system is supposed to protect people—but what happens when it’s used as a weapon?

In this episode of Legal Abuse Explained, Ingrid sits down with a LEAF (Legal, Emotional, and Financial) team of experts to answer a critical question: what is legal abuse, and how does it actually show up in real life?

We break down how coercive control in family court can be disguised as “just a messy divorce” or “court drama,” while survivors face relentless tactics like excessive filings, legal intimidation, financial strain, and manipulation through the system itself.

From three essential perspectives:

• Legal: How unequal resources impact custody battles, parenting time, and support—and why evidence is often hard to prove 
• Emotional: The hidden toll of legal abuse, including anxiety, hypervigilance, sleep disruption, depression, and isolation 
• Financial: Common financial abuse tactics like hidden assets, withheld income, delayed payments, and document manipulation 

We also share practical steps you can take right now:

•  Document timelines and patterns 
•  Build a trusted support team 
•  Access free counseling through EAP programs and domestic violence resources 
•  Start separating your financial identity (credit freezes, password changes, account protection) 

Leaving doesn’t always end abuse—sometimes it changes form.

If this episode helped you put words to your experience, follow Legal Abuse Explained, share it with someone who needs it, and leave a review to help more survivors find support.

🔗 Learn more: https://afterawareness.org/

Transcript

What Legal Abuse Means

SPEAKER_04 0:19

Welcome to Legal Abuse Explained, the podcast uncovering how the legal system can be weaponized and who ultimately pays the price. I'm your host, Ingrid Dutton. Today we're diving into a foundational question. What is legal abuse? To help guide this conversation, I'm joined by an incredible panel of guests. First, I'd like to welcome Karen Tissoni, founder of After Awareness, who will share more about the After Awareness Leaf teams and the work they're doing.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

Thank you so much. It is an honor to be here. Joined by a complete specialized team of experts. Legal abuse is an often overlooked form of abuse. It is often mistaken as domestic violence or can be domestic violence. It's when an abuser uses or threatens to use any legal system to control or cause harm. This entire crisis is a massive blind spot in our safety net. One threat that is often overlooked by experts as they work in isolation. So what we're doing is we're working with teams and it's a coordinated team of experts, which is legal, emotional, and financial. And we have a coordinator who works with those teams. We basically do this as a unified front. And for the rest of this episode, our

Meet The LEAF Team

SPEAKER_01 1:40

LEAF team will break down what legal abuse means to them from their specific perspective and their professional lens. So thank you for having us and welcome everyone to the podcast.

SPEAKER_04 1:53

That was great, Karen. Thank you for getting us started. And welcome to everyone else. Thank you all for being here. To start, I would love for each of you to briefly share some of your professional background. We'll start with legal, Jennifer Garcia.

SPEAKER_03 2:08

My name is Jennifer Garcia. I am an attorney. I've been licensed for approximately 20 years. Licensed not only in Michigan, but Colorado and Florida. I help families and individuals that are going through any sort of family law type of situation within the courts, be it divorce, child custody, parenting time, child support, maintenance. I try to help them through that process in a way that's in their best interest and their children's best interest if they do have them. And with my experience and background of 20 years, I feel like I've run into a lot of the situations that most people have been through, but you'd be surprised at how many new situations come up regularly.

SPEAKER_04 2:51

Thank you so much, Jennifer. Let's move on to emotional. And we have Shanice Carr.

SPEAKER_02 2:56

Good evening, everyone. My name is Shanice Carr, and I actually come from 14 years of experience focused in nonprofit leadership. I place a lot of focus on building strong programs, empowering teams, creating meaningful change in the community, but also with several types of survivors that have been in crisis. And I also come from a background of marriage and family counseling, and I am excited to be here and join everyone.

SPEAKER_04 3:27

Thank you so much. And rounding up the team with financial, Christian Brown.

SPEAKER_00 3:31

Good evening, everyone. My name is Christian Brown, and I am a licensed financial professional. I engage the community as a financial educator and coach. I am partnered with a full service financial firm called Wealthwave. And what we're doing is helping to educate

How Attorneys See Legal Abuse

SPEAKER_00 3:50

the community so that they'll be able to make more informed financial decisions.

SPEAKER_04 3:54

Thank you, Christian. Thank all of you. It's very evident that you guys are the experts that should be talking today. And you obviously have very busy schedules. So thank you so much for taking time to be here. And let's dive into our questions. From a legal perspective, Jennifer, how would you define legal abuse?

SPEAKER_03 4:14

From a legal perspective, I would define legal abuse as somebody who's taking the legal system. Um, and in it's gonna kind of carry over into the other two here, which is uh mental and uh financial. So we see it on all of those fronts. We see somebody, and just as one example, a wife who is a stay-at-home mom, and the other party has all the financial means to go through a process such as divorce or child custody. And the mom who has always been there doesn't know the financial means, doesn't have the money to handle that. They use that system in order to control the other individual that doesn't have the ability to do so, which then you don't think about it, it mentally affects them. They're afraid that their children are gonna get taken away, they're afraid that they're not gonna have money to support themselves, they're not sure of what they're going to be able to do. Uh, for one example, I had a client who had twins and had postpartum, and the other party was recording her using the system to say, I'm gonna call the police on you. I am going to show this to the judge when we go to court, and using that mental part of things as well, um, then told her he's only going to send her a little bit of money monthly to where she didn't know if she can get an attorney to help fight for her and her kids. It is a lot of individuals or an individual using that system, using that legal system to get an advantage either by having the means, the money, or the mental capacity because there was abuse going on in that relationship. There's a lot of different ways that it can play out within the legal system, not just in family law. We're talking about medical malpractice, other things. We have large corporations that have those funds to be able to fight this and the other people who don't. So it kind of runs the gamut of all three and why we have it under after awareness for the financial, uh, the emotional, and the legal part of things, because they are all running together when we're dealing with legal abuse. So I hope that answers the question.

SPEAKER_04 6:17

It does. And I think that we are going to find that there's a lot of overlap between your three definitions, but that makes sense. So let's

Emotional And Financial Warning Signs

SPEAKER_04 6:25

move on to Shanice. And from a counseling perspective, how would you define legal abuse?

SPEAKER_02 6:29

Yes, just as Jennifer mentioned, it is exerting that power and control over someone. We also see the intimidation piece of it. There is also what people don't realize is a sense of emotional harm toward a person. And so with this, from just that counseling and emotional perspective, we see this pattern of misusing that authority to maintain that sense of control. But as a result of this, it tends to cause anxiety, sleep disorders, hypervigilance. And we also see, in some sense, isolation with the people that we work with.

SPEAKER_04 7:11

That makes a lot of sense as well. So, Christian, from a financial perspective, what how would you define legal abuse?

SPEAKER_00 7:18

So it's going to be very similar to what everyone else is saying. Um, to kind of piggyback off of that, uh, it creates certain situations. Uh financial abuse in a situation domestically, is one person handling all the finances and another person not having any knowledge of the finances whatsoever. Um, that's a little different in some relationships where you'll have one that likes the numbers and the finances, so they tend to take on the brunt of that responsibility. However, in a healthy situation, the other individual in the relationship is well aware um of all financial decisions that's being made and they're being consulted um in regards to all financial decisions that are being made. When you have a situation where finances is being used as a weapon, many times finances are being withheld from the other individual in the relationship so that they are not autonomous. Um, in other situations, you may have finances not being completely shared with someone else in the relationship. One person may have all the income coming in, and they do not share the income with the other individual in the relationship, so they're kind of stuck, so to speak, um, without having any type of freedom that comes with having finances.

SPEAKER_04 8:49

Okay, so it's if it were a partnership, an equal partnership, you wouldn't have that imbalance. And it sounds like with each of you, there is an imbalance of control or power in in each of

Misconceptions That Keep Survivors Stuck

SPEAKER_04 9:00

these fields. What uh Jennifer, what would you say are some common misconceptions that you have seen regarding legal abuse?

SPEAKER_03 9:07

I think some common misconceptions with legal abuse is you may have a parent in in my field in family law, I'll just take that as an example, where they're saying the mother wants to keep the child and she's abusing the system, but what they don't see is the whole part of the story. They don't see everything. They hear one side from one party. They don't hear the fact that there was mental abuse going on, that there was financial abuse, that there was these other things because the other party has created a narrative. There is the isolation, there is the not sharing of finances. And so they've created the story during the relationship. And it doesn't have just to be just a mother, it can be a father. I've dealt with many situations that that's another misconception, is that it's not always the female trying to keep the children away or use the system to do so. I have it to where it is the father trying to do so and using the system. It can go both ways. Um, and so I think there's a misconception there is it's not always what you're hearing from one party. We always say, and I'm sure it's in other realms too, but we always say there's his truth, her truth, and there's actually the truth somewhere in the middle. So we try to find that and meet find that middle ground, but sometimes you can't get there because you have that other party, be it the husband or the wife, that have controlled the narrative, and the other person can't seem to get themselves out of that hole that has been dug for so many years that have created that has created that isolation. The friends, the family members, and other people believe the individual that has been controlling that situation. So I think there's a misconception there that legal abuse is being done by mothers to keep the children away, by fathers to control finances. It can be either or, it can be male, it can be female, it can be anything that's used as a way of coercive control, um, even with children. So you have that coercive control. And I think the misconception there is just that it's not always a man or a woman doing it. It can be either or and it's very detrimental to these parties. And Shanice will probably touch on that a little bit more in terms of the emotional aspect part of things, and then financially, yeah, probably you're gonna hear from Christian a little bit where we have men and women both that just they don't know about these finances, they don't know what it entails to be on their own because that other individual, you may have a joint partnership, you may have had that, but you don't know when they're hiding or doing other things. So you're gonna hear that a little bit with the misconception of it's it's not always what you think it is when it comes to legal abuse. There's so many different avenues and vehicles that it can rear its ugly head.

SPEAKER_04 11:59

And I think the legal system for those of us who aren't working in it is such a confusing entity of its own. So it's very easy to have all these misconceptions and not be able to see both sides to the story.

SPEAKER_03 12:11

Absolutely. And it is, and I get a lot of people that will call and just say, I can't afford this. I try to give them as much time as I can with them on those phone calls for consultations. I know I think we're probably going to touch on it a little bit, a little bit later of what they can do to help them through the system. And just having that good support team amongst you is really important because the legal assist system can be daunting. There are people out there who can want to do it on their own. And I tell them, save some money if you can do this. If you can't, because I do this all day, every day, let me help you and we'll figure this out. The individual I told you about before, I told her, we're gonna do this pro bono to start off. And then once you get settled and figured out, um, we'll we'll discuss what it looks like down the road because I'm not letting you on the street with your two twins. It's just, it's not gonna happen. So having that system and that that help. And again, we'll touch on that a little bit later, I think, um, is really important.

SPEAKER_04 13:05

I agree. And I think actually maybe an episode, Karen, we should look at in the future is what you do to find the right team because you everybody wants a Jennifer for their attorney. And there aren't a lot of you out there. Okay, so Shanice, from a counseling perspective, I'm sure there are a lot of misconceptions that you see on your end as well.

SPEAKER_02 13:25

I have to be honest with you. Jennifer did such a great job on touching on all the points, and she actually went into um, even from that emotional perspective, because we do see a lot of the coercion going on, but then sometimes people feel like it can't happen in a marriage if two people are married. So I would say that that is one of the biggest misconceptions. We see it a lot too, you know, before prenups used to be really a thing in the past or a certain just status, but we see now where prenups are being used quite often and more, and it's becoming very common. And I'm not saying that, of course, everyone who asks for one that is where they're headed, but we do see in that sense a lot of the that legal abuse come across in a prenup situation, and then um I think too there's just unfortunately this disadvantage sometimes when we have people who are from other countries come here and then they also marry. There tends to be a sense of power and control from the person that they married here, and they're made to feel less than or not even valid for any opinion at all. And so a lot of times we see a lot of that situation going on, and as I mentioned before, it does, it causes a lot of isolation, and we will see where we talk about them having the right support system, but in those situations, they've been isolated from all of their support systems, from family, from friends, and they're having to rely on this partner, and it can be male or female in that situation, and sometimes it's preyed on at a very young age. You may even see it in younger relationships and the 20-year-olds and the 30-year-olds, and it's just that pattern, and sometimes it's one that's learned at home, but it all leads to that increase in anxiety, the sleep disorders, as I mentioned, and then um just the isolation and even depression.

SPEAKER_04 15:41

Well, that definitely makes sense. And talk about isolation, just having to learn a whole new social culture while you're navigating through whatever is happening. Okay, Christian. I know Jennifer touched a little bit on financial too, but do you have anything to add as far as misconceptions?

SPEAKER_00 15:59

So the biggest miscon misconceptions that I see come from how people think financial abuse or legal abuse looks versus to how it's going to show up in actual real life. Um, for instance, if there's no physical abuse, it's not abuse. Financial and legal abuse uh often happen real quietly. It can be done through paperwork, court filings, withheld information, financial control. A lot of times, survivors may not even realize that it's being done to them, or that what is being done is actually abuse because it's not leaving bruises on them. Uh, another common misconception would be that the court is automatically gonna see the truth, they're gonna see that I'm telling the truth and the other person is a liar. Survivors often believe that if they just tell their story, the system's just gonna protect them. But legal abuse works because the system is slow, it's expensive, it's paperwork driven. Um, truth matters, but documentation matters a lot more. It's all about what you can actually prove in court uh on paper. An additional misconception is if I leave, the financial abuse stops. You know, oftentimes leaving intensifies the abuse depending on the situation that the individual is in. That's when you see things like weaponized child support, um, something that I myself experienced about 20 years ago. Uh frivolous court filings just to keep you in court, keep you debilitated financially, and just to keep you in a demoted emotional state of being. Um delayed payments, if payments are due to the other individual in a relationship, um, assets being hidden, you know, manipulation through attorneys. Um the final kind of common misconception that I've seen is only people with low income experiences this. You know, this is just something that people without money experience. But legal and financial abuse, it cuts across income lines, um, education as well as status. I've seen survivors with six-figure salaries still trapped by financial manipulation. So education is extremely important.

SPEAKER_04 18:26

Very, very good points, especially the physical abuse is not the only kind of abuse. I'm glad you brought that up. And for people listening, it may sound like it's a hopeless situation that they're they're going into. And I'm sure a lot of people who are listening feel very overwhelmed. So let's go into some advice maybe that each of

Legal Survival Skills In Court

SPEAKER_04 18:45

you could offer from each perspective. Jennifer, we'll start with you again.

SPEAKER_03 18:49

All right. And I'm gonna touch on a few of the other things that were said from both Shanice and Christian here before I go into that a little bit, just because it'll kind of lead into it. With immigration, that was a great point, Shanice, that you made in terms of that control there, because you have somebody coming in on a K1 visa more than likely, and you have the other individual who is controlling those finances. They have to be responsible financially for that under other individual. They isolate them to some extent, and they're here not knowing anybody, usually, except for that individual, that fiance. And so there is that control that is going on, and you see that I don't want to say all the time, but it can happen. And it's they use it as if you don't do this, then I'm pulling that K1 and you're going back, or I'm not gonna bring your children over, or you're lying, and they can again control that narrative. Then from there, like Christian was saying about 20 years ago, the support abuse. I have one, not saying my client was correct in what he did. He didn't pay some of the support and maintenance for quite some time. Him and the wife or ex-wife began speaking again about 20 some years later. I mean, we're talking this is done and over with, the maintenance had ended, the support had ended, and he had not paid all of it. When they began speaking again, she wanted to have a romantic relationship. And the individual said, I don't want that. Well, what came next was multiple filings for a judgment for this support that had been entered, a judgment for the child support to be entered because she was angry that she was turned down emotionally for a relationship. Again, I'm not saying my client was correct in what he did in not paying, but what you see here is somebody who is making six figures, the the other spouse who filed, and my client who was not making that amount, they're going after them, which then piggyback on to what Christian said in terms of it's only the lower class who has this happen. Absolutely not. Again, speaking from experience, a client making almost half a million a year is dealing with this of its former client now at this point, but she was dealing with this in terms of the other spouse was military. They use that military bravado in the courtroom. She's trying to harm me, she's doing this, and then behind closed doors, he's controlling the kids and other things, but the court is seeing him as a different individual. The truth doesn't always get there. So again, piggybacking quite a bit on what both of them said was it's not always about the truth. You have a mother or father or individual or grandparent, whoever it may be, going in there. And if they don't have an attorney, then what's happening is they're going in as that protective mama bear, daddy bear, whatever it may be, and they're trying to tell the truth, but that's not how it is in court. It is, you want the truth out there, but there's procedures that the court has to follow. And then you get them saying, the judge was not on my side, the judge was not listening to me. Well, the judge also has to follow rules. So, what I recommend in terms of what they can do, what can help them in order to get through some of this process is having a great team behind you. If you're able to have An attorney, or even if you're not, make those phone calls. Call to whomever you can to get that information. Knowledge is power. That may be very cliche, but knowledge is absolute power. If you feel as if you need to get out of a relationship and maybe the other spouse or other individual or friend of yours, um you you're able to use a credit card, use the credit card, get the $20 from the friend, start putting money away to help you in a situation along those lines. Have that saved. And I'm sure Christian can probably touch on that a little bit for the financial part of things. Contact those lawyers because you may want to go into court and just tell the truth, but you don't know that legal process. You're gonna try to come in with, you know, this form here and say, I've got this, and the other party might have the money and have the attorney, and we're gonna object. We are going to object. That is our job, is to represent that other party. It's hearsay, it's not relevant, it's child testimony. We can't use that. We're gonna find any objection that we can representing the other party, not because we're mean, angry attorneys, but that's our job. And it's the court's job to follow those rules of procedure. So make sure you have that knowledge. Have a team behind you in that legal system, be it family, be it financial, um, have a team start building that and just learning as you go. And it could be for family law, it could be for immigration purposes, anything along those lines, have that information, even if that's calling 50 attorneys to try to get the information. I don't recommend it, but you know, try to find those attorneys that you can get that information from, do the research, take your time and don't go in there guns ablazing. That's not helpful to the court. Have your information in order. Sometimes you have too much. Get to the things that are important to you. If you do have an attorney, what I always recommend to people is give me everything. Let me be the one to decide that it's what's important and what's not, because you may think something is and it's not. And I may see something that you didn't think was important that is very much important. So I think just having those tools, it's necessary moving forward. The other thing, um, and just kind of touching back on the last topic that we talked about is if you are in this position, and I get this question more than anything, therapy is not a bad thing. It is not going to look bad for you in court. That is a misconception, whether you're a male or female. You being in therapy is not going to negatively impact you in court. It's going to help you in this situation. And I would say get into that therapy, work through this process in order for you to have the ability to go in there with a calm, cool head, because that individual is going to use any means to make you angry in the courtroom, is going to try to push those buttons because they've done it for so long. They know what buttons to push. I have had to tell clients, do not speak. They are going to say things that upset you and that anger you. Do not look at them, do not make a comment, do not talk out loud, write a note to me and I'll question them on it. Or we will rebut that testimony. So I think just having a strong team and having that knowledge is really important. I know I got really off track there, but there's just so much that goes on that it's really hard, especially when you don't have those financial means, to try to find that help. So get that knowledge where you can and go into the courtroom if you don't have counsel or you can't find somebody to help you. Calm, cool, and collected, knowing what you need to do. The court doesn't want that full-on emotion. They want it, but not to where you're yelling and screaming and you're taking that bait. So that's what I would suggest in order to really help you through a situation like this. But more than anything, and we're going more than likely to Shanice next, is get that counseling. Have somebody there to be able to help you through that process. It's very important. Having your friends and family there is great, but having somebody who is a professional is even more important, in my opinion, as a legal professional. I tell my clients all the time, are you in therapy? Are the kids in therapy? Get in, do this. It's only going to help you.

SPEAKER_04 26:27

So many good points there. And yes, you can have the best team behind you, but if you are emotionally not okay, you it's very easy to slip back into that victim mentality of fight or flight. And I think that's a perfect segue for Shanice to expand on some recommendations that you may have for survivors out there facing legal abuse.

Free Counseling And Safety Planning

SPEAKER_02 26:50

Yes, I do think that what Jennifer mentioned about seeking therapy services is absolutely correct. And we talked about this. We talked about the financial piece of it, of legal abuse and that financial abuse. So some might be asking, well, I can't afford a nurse, sorry, I'm sorry, not an attorney, but I can't afford a counselor or a therapist. Then look to see if you are working if EAP services are provided. Because typically EAP services will at least give you six to eight sessions that you can take advantage of and be a stickler because sometimes you'll see it's in various areas. Um, for example, you may get six sessions of financial counseling, six six sessions of emotional counseling. So now you just got 12 sessions and didn't even realize it and didn't have to pay for it. Um, if you're not working or if there is no EAP, I can't stress enough. Please, every county, every state across our nation has certified centers. These certified domestic and sexual assault centers will help you. They will service you for free. And they also provide counseling services for free, but can guide you to where you need to get that legal assistance to start filing paperwork. And there's a two-part to that. So we talked about what that circle looks like of having the professional stance, but then also the family and friends. Christian said documentation is key. And I would tell you, yes, whatever you can have and put it aside. And if you don't want it to possibly be found at home, if you do have a friend, if you do have a family member, give them those things so that they can hold on to it for you so that if or so they're not found to make your situation worse. If you don't have a circle like that, then you can absolutely give it to an advocate with a certified center. They will hold it in your file, and when the day comes where you seek that legal advice, they will be able to provide all of that documentation for you. Um, journals, if you're doing journals, incidents, dates, times, description of those incidents. If you come across paperwork that you think may support your case, absolutely hold on, take a picture of it, send it to that person of trust. Um, you don't have to disclose everything to that person. Just say, hey, you know what? There may come a time where I really, really need you to provide these things for me. Can I give you these documents? Can I give you these pictures, receipts, or whatever have you just to hold on to it for me later on down the road? And again, if you don't have that family member, if you don't have that friend, please connect with the certified center. Again, all of those services are absolutely free, not free for six months, three months, they are free for as long as you take advantage of them.

SPEAKER_04 30:03

Okay, and actually, since you were mentioning that, what Christian was saying, how financial abuse is also abuse, to still contact those centers, even though you may not have bruises on your body, you could still qualify for those services, right?

SPEAKER_02 30:17

Absolutely. You're a certified domestic violence center, we'll look at emotional abuse, physical abuse. Um, a lot of them are dull centers and will look at sexual abuse a lot of times. If you see the legal abuse and that power and control, there has been some sexual abuse somewhere in that relationship to where they've been forced for sexual acts that they didn't necessarily consent to. Um, so it doesn't have to be just the bruises and just the physical. It can be the financial, it can be the emotional, it can be verbal abuse, and you can still seek services.

SPEAKER_04 30:55

Okay, perfect. Thank you, Shanice. And then, Christian, do you have any um suggestions

Financial Steps To Regain Control

SPEAKER_04 31:00

for survivors facing legal abuse?

SPEAKER_00 31:03

Sure, I do have some practical steps that survivors can take uh to be able to advocate for themselves. And these are things that they can start doing right now. You don't need money um to be able to do it. Um, these steps are about a survivor reclaiming the power in a system that may oftentimes feel extremely overwhelming. And it's like Shanice is reading my mind. Um, I'm just gonna piggyback a little bit off of what she said and just add a little more detail. Documentation is absolutely everything, not emotionally, but factually. Okay? Dates, times, like she was saying, also screenshots of menacing tests, text messages, um, missed payments, if that's applicable in a person's situation, um, any threatening messages, court filings, receipts of things that you've had to purchase. Documentation is going to be a survivor's shield, um, so to speak. Um, something else that they can do is separate themselves from the other individual financially. They need to begin to create their own financial identity, so to speak, by opening up their own bank account that the other party has absolutely no access to or knowledge of any current bank accounts they may have. They want to change all of the passwords, they may want to freeze their credit, um, start monitoring their credit report, and they definitely want to remove shared access to any accounts. I'm gonna repeat that. Remove shared access to any accounts that may have been joined previously. Um, they also want to build a paper trail portfolio, so to speak. You know, think of it as an individual's personal case file. Uh, it could include a timeline of events, copies of all legal documents, financial statements, communication logs, any evidence uh that might be able to show coercion or any type of manipulation. Um, next they want to do, which can be a little overwhelming at first, but they want to learn the language of the system. It has its own lingo, it has its own dialect, so to speak, and you need to become somewhat versed with it. You don't have to become a full-fledged lawyer like Jennifer, but you do need to have some basic understanding, uh, simple things like what is emotion, what deadlines actually matter, what are your rights in these types of situations, and what documentation do courts actually consider and will actually uh accept as being legitimate? Knowledge reduces fear, and when that fear factor is gone, you're able to think clearly and you're able to move with more intention. Um, next, and I believe someone has already mentioned this as well. You want to build a support team, you want to access any resources that are available to you locally. Your support team could consist of a financial coach like myself, um of a therapist, a domestic violence advocate, a trusted friend, a legal aid resource. The individual has to realize that they do not have to go through this situation alone. So those are some recommendations that a survivor can start working on and applying right now.

SPEAKER_04 34:41

Okay, thank you. And I don't want to take up too much more of your time, but I want to give each of you a chance to add anything on in case somebody's comments triggered something that you wanted to say that we we didn't have an opportunity to touch on.

SPEAKER_03 34:54

We touched on

Tools, Apps, And Getting Help

SPEAKER_03 34:55

it, but one of the things with uh I wanted to add to this because I have to deal with it in in court with documentation. There are apps out there that will, because what we'll find a lot of times are people we use text messages and one party will have deleted something and the other party will have the full record. And so it's hard to authenticate those and get those in. One of the tools that we use, and I don't think it's there any longer, I don't think it's supported, was Legal Text Collector, but there are other apps out there that you can get that will download the full text records. Um, it only works obviously if someone didn't delete something along the way or within yours, but if you've kept everything, it makes it easier to get that full record in. It gives the phone number, who sent it, and what was said. You can obviously see if there's breaks there or things are used, but I've had a better, better record of getting that in versus screenshots of text. Sometimes those are difficult to get in. The other thing that a lot of families are using now, and I always recommend to people is going through a third-party app, be it talking parents, civil communicator, our family wizard, co-parenter, one of the apps, civil communicator, because those keep everything, everything in place. You cannot delete them, you cannot modify them. Civil communicator for people who are dealing with any sort of abuse, be it financial, physical, mental, any of those, it will also, you may want to send a message back because you're angry and you get that victim mentality where you're angry, upset. It will tell you you might want to reward this. It will also tell the party, the other party who wants to send you a message to say that you're an angry bleep. It will tell them we're not sending this. What that then does, and I've had it in court, is it'll tell you all the times the individual had to be corrected because what they sent was not appropriate. And so it'll tell them resend it. So I definitely recommend with the document collection that both Shanice and Christian said, those are tools that you can use that are very helpful within the court system.

SPEAKER_01 37:02

I just wanted to add a couple things. You know, when it comes to legal abuse, there are many forms, being that it is family law or elder abuse or technology or emotional or financial. There's many different forms of abuse. It's just crucial for people to understand that we're trying to not just raise awareness on it, but like they all expressed is having the tools and having a team and having it over the longevity and making sure that you're checking in with the team and you're relying on different resources. Um, you know, we have a scholarship program that does allow expert teams to work with survivors, and that is crucial because we're a nonprofit and we we raise funds to get it, but we we are free and we want to help anybody out there and not feeling like money is an issue. I just wanted to emphasize there are so many forms of legal abuse and just understanding what it is and being aware and asking questions and bugging any organization as much as you can to get the help you need.

SPEAKER_04 38:11

Kristen, you have something else to add too?

SPEAKER_00 38:13

Just one final thing. Um, to all of my survivors out there that are currently trying to navigate legal abuse, please don't confuse chaos with failure. Abusers create chaos on purpose so that they can exhaust you, uh, confuse you, and make you doubt your own stability. You know, your job isn't to match their chaos, uh, your job is to stay consistent, documented, and grounded. Um, you know, if you don't win by trying to outfight the abuser. You win by out-documenting them, outplanning them, and out-refusing, just outright refusing to let their chaos dictate the decisions that you make.

SPEAKER_04 38:53

Thank you. That was very well said. And thank you, Karen, Jennifer, Shanice, and Christian, for sharing your time and expertise. You can find more about each of our guests, along with additional information about After Awareness, including the teams that Karen was referring to at Afterawareness.org. We hope today's conversation has been informative and valuable. And be sure to join us next time on Legal Abuse Explained.